Teach yourself Victorian deportment with just a little pain

 

I’ve been thinking for some time about thinking some time about how to get present day people to have “Victorian deportment”.  So here we go!  I’m sorry not a lot of photographs.  I did take some images of a 14 year old girl in Victorian dress doing these exercises.  Quite wisely I think, her mother did not want the photos on the web to be used by the weirdos, so sorry, no photos from me.  However, quite a few from the web..

First, what do we mean by deportment?  Probably the same as what the Victorians meant.  A few words of explanation:

Victorian deportment today tends to mean walking, sitting and standing in an (to us) unnaturally upright and stiff manner.  The Victorians extended this to how to enter a room, introduce one person to another, table manners and generally “how to be polite”.  The Victorians tended to call posture related matters “carriage”.  It’s easy to find exceptions to this in books and newspapers of the time, but as a generalisation it is acceptable.

So, quickly, why was posture, deportment and carriage so important to the Victorians?  It was important earlier, but another post.  And why for girls and less for boys?  Nearly all the literature on posture refers to “her”.  Well, parents want to do the best for their children!  For boys this meant growing up strong, intelligent and suitably qualified for work.  For girls it meant preparing them for the essential marriage market.  There was no place in middle class society for unmarried females older than 30.  So girls were brought up to be a beautiful as possible in order to trap the most handsome or richest man.  Posture and figure  were among the things that could be changed, faces could not be changed because make was not generally acceptable.

Here’s some help understanding the health aspect of posture.  Consumption was what we call tuberculosis.

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For your DIY Victorian deportment exercises you will need:

  1. A good sense of humor.
  2. Willingness to accept a little discomfort…”no pain, no gain”  ha ha!
  3. An upright chair and a thick book.
  4. A  long piece of string about 10 feet (3 m) long.  A buckle strap is better, but difficult to find this long.
  5. A piece of flexible cardboard about 20 x 3 inches (50 x 8 cm) and scotch tape.
  6. A short light garden cane about 26 inches (65 cm) long.

For  two exercises you do not need any equipment at all.  Try to do each exercise for 30 minutes.  If you think you can’t manage 30 minutes scroll down to the end of the post and look on how to use the cane in the list above.

I’ve tried these excercises with my 14 year old grandaughter and her friend.  They both said that they found the changes to their bodies “bizarre” and they found the exercises uncomfortable.

  1. The figure of eight strap

This is not the most effective way of straightening shoulders, but it is a good start.  Wind the strap round your shoulders in a figure of eight with the ends coming forward under your arms.  Then pull tight, then push your shoulders back, then pull tighter.  Your shoulders will be right back in a way totally strange to us – and for the Victorians this was “good” and even the “normal” position. Clearly you had to train children to have shoulders in this normal position.  I’ve heard an account from around 1900 that the family breakfast all the children were expected to show correct posture – those that didn’t were send to school with an “eight” strap like this and were released at breaktime.strapping

Picture from “Corset et Cyphose – le choix d’un corset chez les enfants” – Dr Charier  Found at the French National Library here  Plate 8, page 45.

2. Arms behind back

This one is best done standing.  Just put your hands together behind your back and push down…..there you are – a wonderful but artificially induced posture.  I’ve heard of this exercise being done for 5 minutes at the start of children’s dancing classes in 1914.  It makes you stick your bust out, and must have been embarrassing for girls with emerging breasts. Here is an actress doing the same exercise to display her charms. She was born 1880, so this is probably taken around 1900 when straight fronted corsets were à la mode.  She is very upright, and a very small waist, but we will discuss that in another post.  However this pose was associated with “correct” posture,  no matter how uncomfortable.

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3 Arms folded behind back

This is a variation of no 2 above.  Just sit down and fold your arms BEHIND your back. Like this.

 

young-woman-with-arms-crossed-behind-her-back-AJ8RH0

(all copyright acknowledged!)

If you really pull your shoulders back it can really hurt.  I interviewed a woman who said in the early 1920 she learnt French verbs at school in this position at the age of 11.  She was an early developer and hated the enforced prominence of her emerging breasts.

4.  Edge of chair

Here’s another deceptively uncomfortable deportment training position – enjoy the feelings.  Take hard chair with a straight back.  Avoid low chairs.  Put a thick book on the back of the seat so that there is a MAXIMUM of 6 inches (15 cm) for you to sit on.  Then sit, and you will be forced into a nice, if uncomfortable good posture.  This is “perching on the edge of a chair” and is uncomfortable for more than a little while.  I interviewed a lady who had this treatment during family meals – and she said it was uncomfortable.  Even worse was that her brothers did not have this “nice ladylike” treatment.

At the end of the 18 century a certain doctor Sir Astley Paston Cooper (1768-1841) developed a torture chair for children.   Here are some photos.  Even in the middle of the 19 century (1850s say) doctors were claiming that these chairs were  unnecessary and painful – so they must have been.

On the right you can see the narrow seat of a little chair for a child.  On the left you can see it in use. Note the more comfortable chair for the adult.

5 Cardboard  collar

This is so simple and so uncomfortable.  Take a strip of flexible card about 3 in by 20 in.   Join two strips with Scotch tape if you need extra length. I used a strip from an office folder.  With Scotch tape  fasten the  strip of carboard around your oh so beautiful neck.  You will now be forced into the “correct” postition for you head.  No poking the chin now!  The collar should not be tight.  You will have to hold your head in proud manner necessary for well brought up young ladies.  You will find sewing, reading and eating difficult – you just have to hold you head up and back and learn to look down.  When you have improved a little then cut out a strip 3.5 inches wide and enjoy your improved posture.

There are some really sadistic refinements for this type of collar, but a later post.

Men too!  The two ladies have collars so high that there natural movements would have been limited – but that is all part of the message sent “I have been well brought up and can wear this without a problem”.

 

You may have noticed that I specified a garden cane in the list of items required, but I have not used it yet.  If 18 century or 19 century did not perform these exercises well, or even complained then the cane would  be used on the body as  a means of motivation.  Often boys were caned on the buttocks, but girls had the more ladylike cane on the back of the calves.  So girls were bought up to learn to suffer and not to complain. I don’t want to go into BDSM etc, but it was not unknown for Victorian children, on being told that they were naughty, had to ASK to be beaten.  Humility is a wonderful thing!

So, if you want to complain, just think about that garden cane and the back of your calf muscles.

 

Later posts will continue on deportment devices, and how women today show protruding shoulder blades that would not have ben acceptable in the past.

love to you all….Mintie

PS  please add your comments either here or on facebook  Interpreting Corset Pictures

 

 

 

 

Victorian Girls in Corsets – the evidence

Sept 11, 2019

First, a big disclaimer:  I am not in favor of children in corsets, or forcible corseting, or any form of non consensual body modification.  We have to face up to the facts of history that for many centuries right up to the 1930s some form of corset or stays were an essential item of clothing for quite young girls.  Even today we “persuade” pubescent girls into bras – even when as mothers we know bras can be uncomfortable.

First , what is the evidence for young girls wearing corsets?  This falls into the followingcategories:

  1. Photographic portraits. I’m not using drawings or paintings because the artist may well paint or draw the fashionable ideal, or at least what the paying parents wanted!
  2. Advertising.
  3. Museum collections.

First the photographic evidence.  I think these girls are clearly wearing stays and have well defined waistlines.  BUT, as we shall see later, waistlines were not necessarily the most important reason for wearing stays.

It’s difficult to judge their ages, but this little guide on skirt length may help.

childrens-costume-research-8

From this we can guess (ha! and get it wrong!) that the first girl is 12 or 14, the second – don’t know, but she doesn’t look very old.  The third – the elder girl standing is about 12 and the other about 10.  To me all 4 girls look firmly laced, but not painfully so.  We must remember that these are carefully posed (and expensive) portrait photos, so mother would have wanted her daughter looking her best – even if it mean a little tighter lacing before the photo and a sigh of relief when the session was over.  But, they are fairly well laced.

The next photos leave a little doubt, perhaps there is a corset, perhaps not.  What od you think, gentle reader?

Perhaps the first two are wearing corsets?  Difficult to see.

…..and now clearly no corset to be seen, but perhaps one is there?

Look at the 4 girls, the one on the left.  I think her dress is just a little waisted in a way that we would not expect today?  The second girl looks nice and loose under her tent dress – very popular for young Victorian girls.  However, looking at contemporary reports and museum items it is possible that she is wearing stays under this loose dress with no hint of a waist.  Why?  A corset aided posture (read artificially upright), and “held her in” to stop her insides spilling out  – yes really.  While a small waist was not necessarily a requirement for a young girl like this one, some loving mothers want to prepare their daughters both physically and psychologically for a tight corset in her early teens.

So, what do the museums have in their collections to help us ?  Here are a few pictures.

From the Symington Collection at Leicester UK:

 

On the left we have a posture garment rather than a waist controller.  I’ll explain the logic used for child corsetry in another post.  But this garment from around 1900 is not for a wasp waist, it is for “stand up straight” support.  With the crossed straps the lucky wearer would have her shoulders pulled back into the “proper place” by a degree determined by the tightness of the buckled  straps.  And it is well boned.   Details here.

The top right is the famous English “liberty bodice” from the 1920s.  It is not boned but has corded support channels where the earlier corset had whalebones.  It was named “liberty” because it was neither boned nor laced and therefore more comfortable than the 19 century corset.  However, there are several comments from the 1920 right up to the 1950s that the liberty bodice was not loose, and could be a source of discomfort.  It wa not normally worn by boys.  Details here.

The last image bottom right is a baby “binder”…..but a corset in all but name.  The recommended way of putting it on a baby was that it should not be “tight” but “firm”.  Details here.This word firm crops up again and again in corsetry.

The last type of evidence for corsets for girls is in the advertisements.  To be exact this is not real evidence because it is what was marketed and not what was worn.  However, advertisers make their ads for things that will sell, and not rest on the shelves.  Here are a few adverts.  The wording is interesting.

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Look at the extreme right of these beautifully corseted young ladies in the 1920s. Don’t believe the statements that ladies threw away their corsets in the 20s.  Corsets were necessary for them, and therefore also for their growing daughters.  The text reads “good support….only a few well placed stays…..made from strong surgical elastic“.  This was support with a capital S many times over.   For a 13 year old ?  Not only would this garment make long term body changes (a post to come) but would show the girl that she could not easily run, jump or climb trees in this garment – but nice young ladies would not want to do these boyish things, would they?

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We’ll ignore maternity corsets for the moment, but look at the text for the girls…..”don’t use an adult corset, buy a special one for your daughter to have necessary support..shoulders straightened, because your daughter already has a figure problem of drooping shoulders”.  Without hesitation they talk about moulding  young girl’s figure, nonconsensual body modification. A few years ago I saw an ad for a training bra, that gently supported and moulded  emerging breasts.  Have we really progressed?

There we are, enough for one post, please let me have your comments.

Mintie.

 

 

Corsets and Sofas – rigid seduction?

I’ve been away for a very long time, I’m sorry.

I’ve seen several photographs of Victorian ladies lying on sofas, some nude, some without corsets, and some very clearly tightly and rigidly corseted.  So, I did a little searching for photographs (I’m avoiding drawings because the drawer draws what people want to see) and made a few unscientific opinion surveys to find out what people think about these poses today.

First, a few images to set the scene!

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It does appear that being photographed on a sofa was popular in the Victorian age!  Why?  Well, I believe there are several complex reasons interwoven with the current social values.  Try these:

First, lying on a sofa gave the impression of informality, try to change the former “stand straight and look at the camera” style of photo. The first two photo show a wasp waist. As Anna Held was an actress and this was a publicity photo I assume that this was the smallest waist that she was prepared to wear.

Second, I think the first two photos would be considered soft porn at the time.  The message is complex, “I am ready for you to seduce me (come and get me!), but I am safe in my armor plated, rigid corset”.   This view is supported when I asked non historically minded men in the family to comment.  One 19 year old nephew commented on Anna Held “she looks sexy but I would need a can opener to undress her”.

The first two photos offer a combination of the rigid upright pose required in the  19 century and gentle relaxation.  Yes, the two ladies are relaxing on a sofa, but their bodies are held rigid by their corset.  See the photo below to see what that means.

The third photo is not like the first two.  She is relaxing, and there is no sexual invittion at all.  She is probably wearing a corset, but she is not showing it off as the first two ladies do.

So, what shape do you have if you lie on a sofa without a rigid corset.  Here are some examples.

IMG_5541-Dark-Garden-Underbust-Victorian-Autumn-Adamme-Chris-Gaedegettyimages-522181340-2048x2048

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The first modern lady in a pink corset goes half way, but the corset is not totally rigid and she bends in the middle.  Probably more comfortable, but not the Victorian ideal.

Much the same for the second cigarette smoking lady.  My current day male regarded this photo as less sexy than the rigid corseted ladies in the first two photos in this post.

The third photo show the same, a modern body, modern corset and no rigidity.

The last and fourth photo shows a lady perhaps 20 years after the “rigid body” photos at the start of this post.   However, she probably is wearing a corset, but less rigid and no wasp waist.

And finally, the ultimate corsetless woman on a sofa.

fainting-paolina_borghese

She was the sister of Napoléon, born 1780 and became an Italian princess. This statue was made in 1805 at the height of the “corsetless” regency period.   As a well born girl in the 1780 and 90s she would have been used to tight stays, not that you can tell from the statue!

Well, a quick post on corsets and sofas;.  Please comment, or even send me your own corset and sofa image, I’ll add it here.

Love to all, Mintie.
Continue reading “Corsets and Sofas – rigid seduction?”

Corsets and Religion

Two interesting images appeared on the  staylace site recently.  In fact many of the images there are interesting because they show how corsets were worn in the past.

Here they are, two ladies in Salvation Army uniform.   They are difficult to date but about 1885.

If you want to know more about the fantastic Salvation Army and its continued good work then look at this.

The images show two women dressed in Salvation Army uniform…for women it was dresses made in a very dark blue serge material. The Salvation Army grew out of the Methodist church.  This meant demanding “plain and sober” clothes with very little ornamentation, and no jewellery.

What is interesting is that while the Salvation Army was against fashion following the two ladies here are very visibly corseted with a non natural waist size.   This indicates that in the 19 century a corset was necessary for respectability.  Going corsetless was not really an option for the 19 century woman.  If you want to think in terms of going bra-less today, then that is how a 19 century woman regared going without a corset.  Many women think going braless sends a message ofsexuaality and social position, exactly the same with a corsetless 19 century woman.

You may also see that the lady (girl? how old is she do you think?) on the right is “poking her head”  by not lifting her head up as she should have done!  This is often found in growing girls who are embarrassed by their height.  In the 18 and 19 century a young teenage girl who “poked her head” would be told to hold her head up in a firm manner.  Various devices were used to persuade girls that poking the head was a bad idea.  These included a whack on the hand with a ruler, or various mechanical devices as described by Heather Bigg in his book on orthopaedics in 1868, here’s one.  It’s a variant of the backboard and collar.  Some women wrte in their autobiographies that these devices were both effective and very uncomfortable.

md46

There we are…..corsets and the Salvation Army….please let me know your views, post a comment here.

 

 

 

Deportment Devices (ouch!) – Part 1

How girls were taught deportment.

Disclaimer…I’m fascinated by the social aspects of clothing.  We have to admit that 18 and 19 century deportment devices probably caused pain and discomfort.  I’m totally against this sort of thing, but it happened and we should try to understand the reasons.

This post was getting a bit long, so I have split it into  two.  Here’s part 1, the other part will arrive soon.

For centuries corsets have been considered essential for good posture and deportment.  Yes, a corset, depending on the type may straighten your spine and pull your shoulders back.  Some of you may remember that the girdles of the 1960s could change posture too!  To have really good posture, as dictated by the standards of the 18 and 19 centuries, required something more…..posture training, and usually only for girls.

Here’s sneak preview of some of the devices

So why was posture so important?  A search through Google books shows the following

  1. Good posture showed class distinction…. the poorer working classes could not afford the time or money for posture training, and physical work was considered detrimental for posture.
  2. Good posture was good for health….a straight back, shoulders well back and the head held high and back.  It was thought that “poking the head” forward would limit air to the windpipe.  Also this upright posture makes your breast larger and higher..just what a lady needs!
  3. Difficult to attain.  Just look at the posture training devices below…..parents and governesses might well force these on young girls…..but it took time and effort (and pain?) to change the natural body pose into the ladylike ideal.
  4. …and most important, a good posture would show a good level of social class…so important for the marriage market, which is why these devices were primarily aimed at girl.  There was no place in social life for unmarried women past the age of 25 years.

And why, you ask is deportment for girls and not boys?  All the pictures that I’ve seen of posture devices show girls and not boys.  My opinion is that boys had more freedom to run and play games, so they had better muscle development.  And of course, girls were weaker than boys, so they needed help that boys did not.

Let’s look at some of the posture devices inflicted on girls in the past.  Except where I’ve made it clear these are domestic devices, and not prescribed by a doctor. They are in the following categories.

  • Posture corsets
  • Backboards

…..and in part 2

  • Collars
  • Shoulder Braces
  • Furniture – particularly chairs
  • Devices for the feet or legs

Let’s look at each of these in turn.

Corsets

All corsets that I’ve come across will change your posture, and for the better.  Even the 1960 girdles that I wore when young had an effect on the way you hold yourself. In the 18 and 19 centuries the posture norm was for a straight back and shoulders well back.  However, some people had even more effective corsets to improve their posture.  The first is from Leicester (UK) museum, a posture corset for a teenage girl.

The museum text cites ” Adolescent girl’s corset bodice of c.1895-1900 in beige/grey sateen lined with white twill. This bodice was specifically designed to ensure the wearer maintained a straight posture.”  See it at Leicester Museum

This is a no-nonsense posture corset designed to do its job without considering the comfort of the wearer – typically Victorian.  Note the crossed shoulder straps – they will not slip down the arms, the shoulders will be pulled right back by the buckled straps. Also you can see the rigid steels that go up the back to flatten the shoulder blades.  Perhaps a concession to youth, it is not was waisted.  However, this corset must have been very uncomfortable to wear.   I’ve heard an account that it was only worn in the mornings, and removed for lunch, during which she had to hold herself properly, or it was put back on in the afternoon.

French mail order catalogs continued the theme for young teenage girl posture corsets.

From the style of corset these are from around 1900 – 1905.   French mothers clearly had no qualms about using these corsets on their daughters aged 8 – 10 years old.  For those who don’t know coutil is a very strong an inelastic material often used for corsets.  Find the original here Aubonmarché.

I’ve interviewed a lady who wore a corset with broad shoulder straps like the ones above in 1910 when she was 11 – she was born in 1899.  It was not comfortable as was forced on her as teaching and preventative device rather than curative. She said that when she was 14 times were changing to more comfortable corsets.

Backboards and Collars

If you thought these corsets pictured above were uncomfortable wait till I show you backboards and collars.  The theory is that you place a wooden board on the back of the girl needing deportment lessons.  Either she learns to hold herself “correctly” or there is a bit of musculoskeletal change.

The two principle types of backboard were (not now, thank goodness)

The Long Backboard and the Short backboard.

The Long Backboard

Was a board across the back, held in place by the arms like this.

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The arms are held high and the shoulders are really pulled back.  Try it at home with a broom handle!  If it hurts after 10 minutes please remember that 18 and 19 century girls had this for an hour in the morning and an hour in the afternoon.

Some images on the internet are plain wrong, it was not used like this.

md25   Wrong, wrong, wrong!

A picture stolen from the two nerdy girls site 2 nerdy girls.  In this 1828 painting we see a naughty girl who has thrown her (beneficial, health, “you will thank me when you are older”) backboard on the floor.  Note that her caring and loving mother is threatening to use the birch ready for action in her hand.  Pain and fear were acceptable (even necessary, many thought) in child rearing up to about 1920.  Right click on the picture to see a larger view.   Not only were these backboards painful, but they rendered the poor girl helpless, she could not use her hands.  This was a another way of instilling humility in girls…an essential quality for the marriage market.

Look also the posture of the seated lady in the green dress on the right.  She shows a “correct” and ladylike posture, probably only achievable with stiff stays, a backboard and a little motivation – the cane or the birch on some tender part of the body.  The long backboard was used in England less and less during the 19 century and probably did not make it past the early years of the 20 century.

Scene at Scotsbridge CE Drummond 1830

The Short Backboard.

This was really a fiendish device, and contemporary comments tell us that it was both painful and effective.  Here’s a typical example, although it does come from a fetish style book of the 1860s.

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It’s very simple really, a flat board with three straps.  One goes round the waist, the other two over the shoulders.  The fortunate wearer is held rigid with the shoulders pulled well back (the correct position according to adverts of the time!).  The board flattens the shoulder blades, it may look nice, but it seriously limits arm movements – but genteel ladies don’t want to wave their arms about do they?

Citations on the use of the backboard.

Conseulo Vanderbilt was born in 1877, so the following quote from her autobiography relates to around 1891

A horrible instrument was devised which I had to wear while doing my lessons.  It was a steel rod which ran down my spine and was strapped at my waist and over my shoulders—another strap went around my forehead to the rod. I had to hold my book high when reading, and it was almost impossible to write in so uncomfortable a position. However, I probably owe my straight back to those many hours of discomfort.

You can find the book here here

Interesting to note that she comments on the discomfort and the value gained.

Fanny Kemble was born in 1809., so she’s talking about her early teenage years in around 1820.     In her autobiography she says..

In order that I might “bear my body more seemly,” various were the methods resorted to; among others, a hideous engine of torture of the backboard species, made
of steel covered with red morocco, which consisted of a flat piece
placed on my back, and strapped down to my waist with a belt and secured
at the top by two epaulets strapped over my shoulders. From the middle
of this there rose a steel rod or spine, with a steel collar which
encircled my throat and fastened behind. This, it was hoped, would
eventually put my shoulders down and my head up, and in the meantime I
had the appearance of a young woman walking about in a portable pillory.

You can read the text here

In 1975 I interviewed an old London man born 1895.  He told me that when he was 7 or so his elder sisters had to learn poetry from books placed high on music stands while holding the long backboard.  As they had their arms extended they could not use their hands to wipe their noses, so it was his job to be a good little brother and wipe runny noses.  It is interesting to note that he remembered the backboard as only used on girls, never a suggestion that it was for him too.

Dance manuals  Library of Congress .

Sketches relative to the history and theory, but more especially to the practice of dancing Intended as hints to the young teachers of the art of dancing. Francis Peacock

Sketches Relative to the history and theory…..of dancing.  Francis Peacock 1805.

Find it  here

Backboards, as they are now constructed, are certainly of great use to children in general, as they not only draw the shoulders back, but they force in the scapula, or shoulder blades, and, in time, may lengthen the clavicles, or collar bones. These all tend greatly to raise and give a fullness to the chest;

 

Henry Bigg – British orthopaedic surgeon, wrote in 1862, see  here.

Greatly as this form  of  appliance been  ridiculed by modern Orthopaedists, there  cannot be the least doubt that ladies of the last generation ower their superiority of form to this simple mechanical arrangement.

…and his drawing of it.

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This a “short backboard” with a collar to train the lucky girl not to “poke the head”, that is to say keep the head proudly erect as good breeding demanded.  We’ll discuss collars in the next post.  I’ll just say that this device could be rendered more painful (more effective) by adding sharp pins to the pad under the chin.  Some thought it more humane to replace the pins with a pad with blackboard chalk on it.  Any young lady with chalk under the chin had a swipe with the cane.

 

Well, that’s enough for this post.  Please tell me what you think of these posture devices, how would you feel if you had to use one? Is this all part of “il faut souffrir pour être belle”…you have to suffer to be beautiful?

To post please try here

Love to you all….Mintie

 

Is She Wearing A Corset?

I’m sorry I’ve not written recently, loads of of things have kept me busy!

So, here are two photos for discussion.  Just for a change I thought I would avoid the obviously tight corset and wasp waist, and go for photos where there may be a doubt about the corset.

First, a photo “stolen” from http://www.staylace.com.    This is a photo from around 1890, a defined waist yes, not not a wasp waist.

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In fact, there’s very little waist reduction at all!

We must remember that at this time most dressed had a firm lining that was boned, with a waistband that could be tightened.  It is possible that she is not wearing a corset at all, but using the dress to mold the figure a little.  This is probably a photo taken in a professional studio, and therefore would have been a “special occasion”.  IF she is not wearing a corset, then why?  Possibly she’s been ill?  Or she has borrowed the dress?

What do you think?  Please let me know by posting your comment here.

 

Here’s another “corset or not”  photo. Again from probably 1890, but it is difficult to date.

md33          Le_georgette2

She’s not very old, possibly 10 or 11?.  To me it appears that the dress is just a little tight, it fits her body quite smoothly?  There’s not obvious waist restriction, but her side are a little straight, no natural curves.  In the 1890s a respectably 11 year old girl might well be wearing a bodice rather than a real adult corset – just enough to shape the body a little and give that necessary support.

At the side of the photo I’ve put an 1900 advert from a French mail order company that shows what she might being under the rather pretty dress.

The text in French reads “Corset for young girls aged 9 – 11 years in very beautiful English satin in colors natural or white, buttons in front with shoulder straps.  Real whalebone.  “.   So in the French 1890s young girls were we expected to wear underwear just a little tight, and just a little stiff.  She would probably be wearing a stiffer, tighter corset by the age of 13 or so.  However, the corset come quite low over the hips and even gentle whalebones must have restricted movement a little?

Note how the drawing shows a childish body with straight sides, just like the photo above.  I think the photo shows a girl wearing “something” a little tight under her dress.  What do you think?

Please post your comments here.

 

Love to you all, Mintie

 

Corsets and bicyles 1899

I’ve found a very interesting  YouTube video.  You can find it  here .  It shows many ladies on bicycles in Catford, a suburb of London in June 1899.  It looks like a ladies’ bicycle club outing.  There’s just so much social history to be seen here, but we will concentrate on waists and corsets.

Here’s a still clip of a well corseted lady  at 00:30.

exvid01

I really can’t resist a few non corset comments.

First, just look at those hats!  Just imagine going for a bike ride today with a large and difficult to manage hat….that’s why they used long hatpins.  I can’t find one person in the video who is not wearing a hat.  When did you last wear a hat in the 21st century?

Second, right at the beginning, the procession of around 100 ladies is led by a man….of course, women could not be trusted to find the way themselves, could they?

And…..how did these ladies avoid getting their long skirts tangled in the rear wheel?  The easy answer is that they were well used to controlling their ankle hiding skirts, so they just did it automatically.

Also, look at the young children in the left foreground, they are all dressed in loose, easy clothes…..both women and children were beginning to have more freedom as the Victorian era was ending….Queen Victoria died 2 years later in 1901.  Compare with the 1740 young girl described here .

The best way to look at the corseted waists is to look in the right bottom of the video as they move off camara.  The focus and clarity are much better.

If you stop the video at the following times you can see some well corseted waists.

 

And here is the ideal hat for a cycle ride at 00:52!

cycle_hat_00-52
00:52

 

Two well waisted ladies at 01:02

cycle-01-02
At 01:02
cycle-hat00-46
00:46

These ladies are not extremely wasp waisted, this is 1899 and not 1880 when waists were really tight.  However,  if there was an evening dinner after this day time event I expect that these well dressed cycling ladies would have been several inches smaller in their evening dresses.

I’ve worn corsets for reenactment type events.  My feeling is that I could just about manage a strenuous bike ride in a corset, I’m not so sure I would be happy doing so in along skirt that might get caught in the back wheel, and when wearing such a big hat!  Also note that many of the ladies appear (but it’s not clear) to be wearing gloves…well of course, they were well brought up ladies.

Please tell me if you agree with my interpretation, or you think that I’ve got it all wrong.

I’ve got this video as a file on my computer, send me an email if you want a copy.

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